NLP Master Class: Neurological Levels Video Transcript

Slide 1: NeuroLogical Levels of Learning and Change

I am going to start with some slides, do a little bit of introduction here. Again, this is our part of our virtual practitioner program. And I think it is very useful for you to know something about how change is influenced and can take place on different levels. These neurological levels, as we call them, are different representations of them. Most often, it is represented as some kind of a pyramid showing a type of hierarchy and there is kind of an implied hierarchy in this model. We will go over that, what that means. Sometimes it is, you could represent it as a ladder or kind of a bull's-eye and it is basically composed of these six different classifications: environment, behaviors, capabilities, beliefs and values, identity and then the sense of some kind of purpose.

Slide 1: Bateson’s Levels of Learning

We will be going into, obviously, into depth of what those mean and how they interact together. But at first I would like to actually go a little background of this. Because these were inspired by the work of Gregory Bateson. Now, Bateson did not organize them in this particular way, did not name them in that way. But he did have a system that he called a system of levels of learning. He noticed that there is not only one way to learn. They are actually different ways and different modalities of learning that have different functions in our lives and in our behavior. And he was looking, by the way, not only at human beings, but of all creatures really. And he first started with this notion of what he called a zero learning. And zero learning means no change. How do we know that something is learned? Well, it is adapting, it is changing its response to conditions.

So, he said, when there is zero learning you basically just get repetitive behaviors in which you are kind of stuck in a rut or trapped inside of a box. We might say that when we have repetitive habits, resistance, inertia. These are all examples of zero learning. There is no change happening. And then he said, when we do have, begin to adapt and change is what he called Learning I. And Learning I is kind of our classical way that we think of learning. It is kind of gradual incremental change, making connections and adaptations through behavioral flexibility. But kind of stretching with your kind of still within this particular box we might say.

Now, classic example of this is what people like Pavlov and Skinner. BF Skinner called the sort of stimulus-response reinforcement. If you only have a stimulus and response and it does not change that is no learning. But when that response to this stimulus changes through some kind of reinforcement then you begin to get what is called learning. And of course, Pavlov did his famous experiments with giving the dog food and ringing the bell and pretty soon when he rang the bell, the dogs would start to salivate and act like they were getting ready for the food. 

Skinner of course did a lot of experiments with things like pigeons and of course humans too. Reinforcing certain behaviors to draw out certain capabilities and we might even say a lot of our classroom learning is this kind of classical Learning I. I am learning how to do something through some kind of repetitive practice. It is a really important way, it is our basic form of learning.

However, Bateson also noticed there was another type of learning he called deutero-learning which basically was about learning to learn. And so, what do you notice for example, and then many researchers notice is that, an animal let us say, condition to discriminate something based on colors, will learn to discriminate even more quickly, even though you give it different colors. Or can even learn to discriminate if you give it different sounds. It gets the idea. I am supposed to make a choice here. And so this idea of learning to learn meant that, "Okay. I am getting that there is a certain category here", and he, Bateson, said that this was very powerful form of learning. 

And very often, this learning, too, can be characterized by pretty rapid discontinuous change. For example, if we suddenly believe that a certain circumstance is dangerous we kind of go into whole different box. We switch from one type of box to another. We say, "Well this is not a situation to explore something. This is a situation to be careful". We can see things like that happen. I remember after the September 11th terrorist attacks, people were immediately afraid to fly. People stopped traveling. Just like in recent times during the COVID-19 pandemic. Suddenly people stopped flying and it was not because they learn through some kind of slow reinforcement. It was because suddenly that goes into a whole other box. And that is a very interesting thing that Bateson said this was kind of probably the foundation for things like neurosis. We are putting something in the wrong box. We think that something is dangerous when it is not. So, this is often created by a change of what we might called values, priorities, etc. 

Slide 2: Bateson’s Levels of Learning

Now then, Bateson went on just say that there are other levels of learning. One he called Learning III. Now Learning III would be a change in a whole sort of system of boxes. As I say, here on the slide this is not only outside the box you are outside the building. So, this would be for example if you tried to reinforce a rat to flap its arms like a bird, that would be impractical impossible. But some creatures and some conditions are able to do that. Like human children do flap their arms like birds. Humans are actually quite capable in some ways of Learning III. So, what Bateson would say, is that this Learning III is about a classification of these different types of behaviors.

For example, you have bird behaviors, you have dog behaviors, and he said that again under rare circumstances often baby animals can do that. I can remember when we had a puppy. We had a kitten, older cat and a puppy when I was a child. And the cat would sort of jump up and start to walk on the top of the hedge and this little puppy would try to do that, kind of jump up like it was a cat. So, the dog was kind of trying to take on cat-like behaviors. Bateson said, when his daughter was little, because he was an anthropologist and he would travel, he brought home a baby monkey and his daughter had a puppy and he said the monkey and the puppy would try to play together. The monkey would do monkey tried to do monkey games the puppy would try to do dog games. And they were kind of mismatching, but over time they kind of began to evolve these new types of games that maybe you could call a muffy game or a punky game or something. So, this is a very deep level of change, where you are really evolving a whole system of behaviors. 

And then finally Bateson said in some rare circumstances and usually not on an individual basis, but more on a kind of a species basis, you would get what is called Learning IV which is truly like a revolutionary change that is some completely new set of boxes emerged. We see this happening if a new species comes or we see it happening in businesses and technologies. When you have these kind of what they call disruptive technologies, they are not simply the version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 of an existing one. They actually are a completely different form of technology. I think these are the whole notion by the way that Bateson said was that Learning II does not happen by the same dynamics as Learning I. Learning I, you can reinforce something positively or negatively to approach something or avoid it. But one example he gave for instance of Learning II, he said no matter how much you negatively reinforced a rat if you put objects in its cage and they are dangerous. The rat never stops exploring objects because the whole purpose, he said, of them to explore the object is to find out if it is dangerous. So, exploration is a different level than discovering that this particular thing is dangerous or not.

Slide 4: Levels of Learning and Change Comparison

Now, I always thought this was so fascinating and so powerful but it is kind of difficult for people often to grasp all of this and when we call it zero, one, two, three four, it is kind of abstract. And I remember having a conversation one day with somebody in Oslo, Norway actually was a big fan of Gregory Bateson. I was saying, "I think this notion of this levels of learning or so important is it. Somebody should do something really practical with those someday". And as soon as I said that, I thought well, maybe I guess I am that somebody. And so, this kind of started me on this process of really finding out, how could we take this and make this into something that is practical that people could really use. And this, where this notion of the so-called NeuroLogical Levels comes in. Here is, to get this kind of example, as I said a sort of a pyramid here. And we could say that Learning 0 is kind of just a particular behavior in an environment. So Learning 0 is about the relationship between stimulus-response that can happen whether there is been any learning or not. You know a creature can be born that way.

Now, when we get to the level of capabilities, we say this level capabilities is about Learning I. It is, I am learning to change that behavior in response to the environment. And then Learning II when we said this is where you going to a different box, looks like it is about my beliefs and my values. It is where I used a whole different set of capabilities in this kind of situation because I use different capabilities if I think it is dinnertime and I am eating then I would, if I think, "Oh, no, this is work time and I should be doing something productive". So we kind of organize our live in this kind of categories, these boxes. Then Learning III, I thought well this would be where we are actually making changes in basis as we make changes in Learning II. Also this is where I make changes in my values and beliefs. So this notion of what I call identity. So, my identity is a kind of a set of these boxes. If I am a doctor, I have a certain set of values, beliefs, capabilities, behaviors, I work in a certain environment. However, if I am in a sales person or an I.T. person, then I am going to have a different set of priorities, different set of capabilities, different set of actions, etc. So, this seem to me to be a really interesting and practical way to begin to understand this especially from a coaching perspective or a business perspective.

Now this Learning IV that he talked about and he said that really does not happen on an individual level. It is kind of more what I would often call a spiritual level or level of purpose which means it is no longer about me and my system of boxes. It is how I fit into a bigger system and how I interact with this bigger system. Little bit like when Bateson was talking about the puppy and the monkey we are interacting and this bigger system of, they say, these buildings of boxes, if you will. So, this was kind of my first idea now.

I also realized that these different levels as we see in this diagram. They kind of are our answers to different questions. So, if I ask somebody the questions, “where” and “when” to do something it is pretty clearly about the environment, time and space. So, I want to do something here and at that time. But then, the question is “what are you going to do?” And that is the “what” question. What will I do in that time and place? Am I going to go skiing? Am I going write a book? Am I going to talk to somebody? So that has to do with what actions go in that time and place. Then of course the question is, how will I do that? How am I going to organize that? How do I make that happen? So that is the level of capabilities. If I do not know how to ski, I cannot ski. If I do not know how to operate certain kind of computer programs, I cannot do it. I have to learn how to do it. And that is that level of capabilities.

And then, this level of beliefs and values we say, this relates to the question “why?” Why do I do it? What is the motivation? Why is it important to go skiing in that time, in that place? What values does that represent? What beliefs do I have about that? Generally, when we answer the question why, we are invoking some kind of beliefs or values.

And then kind of this higher-level purposes. It is for whom and for what. So, it is not just why am I doing it. It is for which bigger purpose? So, with this demand in, it is also very powerful because when we think about this different levels and they are kind of what comes out when we answer certain kinds of questions. Now, why we put them in a hierarchy is, again, this whole idea about why Bateson put them in 0, 1, 2, 3. He said, each one is a kind of a bigger box that the other ones are in. Now, when we think about behavior, when I am acting in a certain way, I cannot. It is difficult to ski in the bedroom. But it I can ski in different environments. So, actually I can ski on flat ground, I can ski on the steep slopes. So, skiing is a behavior that can be done in multiple environments. And then learning to do something athletic is something that I can do with multiple behaviors. So, I can learn multiple behaviors. And again beliefs and values can relate as we said to sort of whole groups of capabilities.

So, that is why I am kind of organizing that way usually, typically we say, we have a single identity or at least in any particular situation I might have my role identity. We all have a sort of a deepest identity where there is the sense of there is one me that might have many roles. And so that identity becomes sort of the bigger box that can hold all of the beliefs, all of the values, all of the capabilities, all of the errors that has been to all of those environments. So again, that is why we tend to put that as a pyramid. Of course, there is more to say this is just an introduction. But want to kind of give that basic background.

Slide 5: Levels of Learning and Change

Now, as we think about it then, environment it is relating and it is going to determine the external opportunities, constraints to which we have to respond. So again, this is relating to the where and when. It is about the context. Behaviors are about the specific actions or reactions made within that environment. So it is about engaging bodies and behaviors and actions. Capabilities are what give direction to those actions. How do I know which action to do? When that happens usually not to the action itself but through some kind of mental map or mental model, plan or a strategy. So it is again this idea of how and typically, it is engaging not the external world of the body but starts to go inwardly into our mind. And in this as part of the idea of the neurological levels. When I am engaging my environment, I am doing it through my senses: my eyes, my ears. When I am acting, I am doing that through the nerves that guide my muscles and my body. When I am thinking or planning, that is what I am doing in what is often called it the cortex of the brain. 

Slide 6: Levels of Learning and Change

Then when we think about beliefs and values as we say they are determining the why they are providing the reinforcement that motivation we say or the permission that can use support or inhibit capabilities. If somebody does not believe that they can do something, they would not even try to learn it. If somebody believes they are stupid, they will continue to resist trying to learn certain capabilities. And so we say that metaphorically that beliefs are kind of more related to the heart in a sense than the head. Now neurologically, we know that when people have the strong sense of motivation it begins to activate things in the amygdala and some of the limbic system. The lower brain, which is very, again a sort of a deeper level of our nervous systems within the more peripheral parts.

When we then go to identity, as we said it involves a kind of our different roles or our mission, and relates to who we are and it engages our sense of self. Now from a neurological perspective, we would say, this is kind of engaging the nervous system as the whole. But there are certain parts, we know that a certain part of our brain that if they are damaged we no longer exist. We can no longer function. And so I think there are things like what are called the reticular activating system. And I think these are all parts engaged your identity. And one of the things that you see from a neurological perspective that happens when people have truly multiple personalities is you have these very interesting things. Like sometimes a person can have an allergy in one personality and they do not have that allergy in another. There has even been cases of somebody who is insulin dependent diabetic in one personality and not in another. So again, this level of identity moves very deep parts of our nervous system.

And then when we think about this idea of our sense of purpose, this is where we are going even beyond our own nervous system to more collective intelligence and collective interactions. That is why basically saying these are species. We have species level learning and species level interactions. So, this often involves our sense of our bigger vision and our sense of what we are part of in one of.

Slide 7: Levels of Learning and Change

On another beginning master class we talked about this notion of holon, that we are part of something progressively bigger systems. And in fact another way to sort of represent these levels we can say it is kind of almost like a tree where I, my identity is part of a family, a profession, a community, a planet. When we do have our experiences of being part of something bigger, every language has the term 'we'. And that 'we' means, I am an individual but I am also part of something more than my individuality/ That is what we call that sort of spiritual level, that level of purpose. And now this diagram also shows something interesting because it says, we can see, just like a particular person can be part of a family. This particular me can have a series of core beliefs. Each of those core beliefs is supported by and also is connected to certain capabilities. Each of those capabilities produces a certain range of behaviors. It is like the capability to spell. I can spell and whole number of different words. As I was saying the capability to ski I can do. I can ski in different ways and in different terrains. And again those behaviors tend to be activated in certain environments. So, this is another sort of way to think about these levels.

Slide 8: Levels of Perception Are Reflected in Language

Now it is important to explore these levels from the neurolinguistic perspective. They are not only neurological. They are also linguistic. We have been saying this idea of where, when, what, how, why, who, for whom. But you also will hear in statements that people make. Sometimes people, they speak about something on an identity level. Here is a couple of examples: if somebody says, I am a cancer victim or I am an alcoholic, I am going to always be an alcoholic. That is definitely saying this is an identity level. This is a core aspect of me, but I could also have beliefs. Somebody could say well, I believe that it is false hope not to accept some kind of inevitable result. That is not saying who I am, but it is a belief about something like cancer. Similarly with something like drinking. Somebody consider, I have to drink to stay calm and be normal. So that is a belief. It is not an identity. I have to; I must. These are judgments. At a capability level you can say I just do not have the capability. I do not have the capacity to stay well or I cannot control my drinking. So, now that is not so much a statement about, a judgment about it. It is a mistake when about my capability on a very specific behavior level you say, I have a tumor or I drink too much. I had too much to drink. 

So here, we hear that the language itself is kind of categorizing as Bateson was sort of saying, it is kind of putting these experiences into different boxes. And in fact, you could take the exact same experience and put it in different boxes. And this of course what becomes interesting. If I change the way I talk about something, change the way I am relating to it. So like on these examples here on an environmental level, I can say the cancer is attacking me, which is different like then it is out there versus that I am this. Or when I get around my friends, I drink. You know have a drink. So this is like not even about me. It is putting it out as an environmental cause.

So by the way, sometimes you can even say that even say with a single sentence you can kind of almost hear all these levels. Imagine if somebody says, “I should not think that way here.” So, “I” identity, “should” belief, “think” is kind of a capability, “that” particular thing or behavior, “here” this environment. And you will hear that in a lot of judgment statements. You know, some kind of identity, “Children should or must,” that is beliefs. “Think this way,” “learn this,” you know etc. So, it is actually rather interesting when you start to listen, you start to hear these different levels are very much part of how we communicate and organize our experience.

Now also what we find is as I was saying that we learn and we put we develop on this different levels, in different ways. If I want to change a behavior, that is a really different than if I am trying to change a belief. And sometimes what happens is I am trying to change the behavior, it does not change using the typical methods because it is not just the behavior. This is the whole idea of this hierarchy. I actually have to go up to a belief level to make it possible to change that behavior. Otherwise, the belief is just going to keep putting that behavior back in place or holding it in place. 

I have a whole book called From Coach to Awakener where I go over different tools that work and helped in NLP as one of the ways I use this. I find it really important for NLP is that it helps me to categorize at which level certain kinds of NLP techniques and tools are going to be best for using or working with. So for example, some NLP processes are really good for working with capabilities. I have developed a whole spelling strategy. Well, that is really for developing a capability but that is quite different than a process that I developed called re-imprinting where it is whole idea is to change beliefs and particular beliefs about identity. 

So one of the reasons I like to present this here at the beginning of practitioners is you are going to realize, "Oh, there are different tools that are going to work to shift and impact different levels".

Slide 9: Levels of Support for Learning and Change

And in addition to that, we also say there are different levels of support. So if I am going to support somebody in changing or in developing something on a particular level, I am going to have a sort of a different relationship with them. So, for example, if I am supporting somebody on an environmental level, I am usually either guiding them. I am saying you go here, at this time, do that. It is, I am telling about where and when. Or I am care taking. I am giving them some resource. I am providing them something from the environment. I am feeding them, clothing them, and doing something, gives them that basic environmental support. And this is this idea of “coach to awakener”; that we start working on a behavioral level. It is not just about giving them something, or showing them something, or telling them something. It is really the beginning of coaching.

Now coaching does not end here, but this is really where we begin to coach. The way that we help somebody, change their behavior it is typical kind of Learning I. Or I am reinforcing them, giving them encouragement, I am watching them, I am observing them. Just like we would if you have ever been a coach of a sports team or something. I know I coach my son's and my daughter's soccer teams. And what you are doing is, you are always going to, you are observing, you are encouraging. But if we want to really have somebody developed a whole capability, it is not just coaching. And, I call that small see coaching and a good coach does all of this. But we say is, you are really starting to teach them. I have to explain something. I am not just focusing on the behavior. I am actually focusing on helping them to develop some kind of mental model. Obviously, what I am doing right here, right now is on teaching. I am explaining things, I am giving examples, I am actually not trying to change any particular behavior right now. We are not focusing on practicing something. But it is to help to develop a kind of a different scheme, a different kind of a mental map of something.

Now when we get to the level of values and beliefs, you cannot just teach beliefs. You can try to. You can say, you should not do that, or this is not good, whatever. But usually that is not the way people learn beliefs and so often you hear people say, well I know better but belief means, we say, that is where we usually do something like mentoring. I am listening, I am advising, and in particular, I am also being a role model. So, I am going to this deeper levels. It is not the same as explaining. As I say, a good mentor is a role model, an advisor and a good listener. When we get to the level of identity, we call it sponsoring. And sponsor is different meaning, the same word and I know has different meanings, and is used in different ways and different language. In English and especially American English a sponsor is somebody is not just financial. It is actually somebody who is really, that taking care and caring deeply about something. Sponsor comes from the same root as responsibility, right? I am really caring deeply about something. The way I often like to express this notion of sponsorship is related to something that Albert Camus wrote a kind of paraphrasing in one of his books where it said, "Until a person has been seen and blessed by another person, they do not yet fully exist". So, sponsoring is we are really making this place. We are recognizing the unique identity of somebody else. This is again is a very powerful thing to do and again as a parent, as a coach, as a trainer, a different roles that we are in. Even as a doctor. These are often important relations that we have with those who we are supporting.

Finally, this notion of spirit or purpose we say is awakening. I am awakening to my participation in something bigger than myself. People often talk about having some kind of a spiritual awakening. But again, when I say spiritual, I do not mean abstract. It could be awakening to my role as a father in a family where suddenly I am not just an individual anymore. My identity is in service of my family or I am again in a role a doctor. It is not just about me or a nurse. I am that identity is in service of something bigger. And then the fact is that some changes will be focused mostly on one of these levels and one of these kinds of ways of support whereas others are going to maybe involve multiple levels. If you think about raising a child, obviously, you are moving through all of these different levels. And sometimes depending upon the type of transition somebody is going through we need to touch upon each of these levels.

Slide 10: Multi Level Introductions

So, I want to end by saying that oftentimes, when we start a program and we do this at our NLP U programs, when we are having people begin to meet and get to know each other, we say let us do a multi-level introduction. Because, if you really want to say something about yourself, typically people keep it fairly superficial. This is where I am from, this is what I do. Where we like to say, well it is important to know that where you from. What do you do? But also, how would you like to improve? How do you want to grow? Or gain? Or benefit from being in this course? And then why is that important to you? Why do you want to improve that? So, that is what we are going to now the values and the beliefs. And then we are asking, well and who are you? Not just well, I mean no, I am a dentist, I am a lawyer. But very often we find that when we get to this identity level, it is much more interesting to express it as a kind of a metaphor. What is a metaphor for who you are? And what you want to become more of as a result of this course? What is the special gift that you bring? And I think these are interesting things for all of us to consider. I really invite you to consider how you would answer these questions. And then finally, what is the vision of the world that you would want to create? What you want to create more of in the world? What is this larger wisdom that you would like to be in service of? Again, this is that that notion of, we like to say that NLP is a lot about helping us create a world in which people want to belong.

So again, there is so much involved in this notion of neurological levels. That is it. This is really just a taste. It is an introduction. We will, of course, be coming back and visiting these in multiple times in our future master classes. But I hope this has been interesting for you. I look forward to seeing you. Some time, not just virtually but in person. I hope that you found this interesting. Again, I think this makes a good foundation for many of the things that we will be working with in this course.